Saturday, October 15, 2005

Pulchritude on the right--and left (PC alert: non-PC discussion ensues)

Blogger Pamela of Atlas Shrugs has been profiled at Pajamas Media, to an unusual amount of--err--highly cerebral commentary (well, commentary, anyway).

Some of the comments have featured an observation I've heard before, to wit:

Pamela is one hot gal. Nice to confirm that politicallly conservative women are better looking and smarter then liberal hags!

Much heated discussion of this weighty issue ensues.

I'd like to proffer, in defense of liberal women everywhere (after all, I used to be one!--liberal that is--and no wisecracks, please, about the function of the strategically-placed apple), the observation that there are most definitely some very attractive liberal women--quite a few, in fact.

Take, for example, 99.9% of Hollywood. Are they not attractive? And are they not liberal?

Also, as much as I cannot abide her columns, no one can say that MoDo is not an attractive woman (well, someone can say it--but it would be wrong!). Exhibit A:



And, despite her abominable views, Ms. Fonda, especially in her youth (my extreme youth, that is), was no slouch in that department, either. Exhibit B:



It's true, of course, that the protean Jane had many faces--perhaps not a thousand, but close, as you'll see from the photos of her that come up if you Google her name in "Images." But in nearly all of those images she is attractive, including this (somewhat Photoshopped, I believe) one from her Hanoi Jane phase:



And now, I have a question for those who agree with the original assertion: do you think that becoming more conservative is the equivalent of getting some free plastic surgery? If so, the neocon movement might gain quite a few adherants.



31 Comments:

At 3:21 PM, October 15, 2005, Blogger karrde said...

It's probably selective sampling...the best of one side, the worst of the other.

On the other hand, if one of the two movements is overburdened with smart, young, well-groomed females, then it might have better chances in the long run....

 
At 4:03 PM, October 15, 2005, Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

karrde hits on the central possibility right out of the box.

In my salad days, the liberals seemed to have all the attractive women. I can see some of my own selection bias from the distance of 30-40 years (ouch), but grant for the sake of argument that such might have been true.

There is no reason for such to be self-perpetuating. I don't have any data or strong impressions myself -- selection bias is even stronger in adulthood -- but I have heard this claim that conservative women are more attractive offered a few times in the past decade.

"... smart, young, well-groomed females..." would definitely have a movement advantage in the long run. At least half of Boomer liberalism was adopted, and is maintained, by its fashionability. Check out the Huffington Post or similar writing and see how frequently the cultural habits of others are disparaged with a sneer. The sneer is everything for keeping the waverers in line in liberalism.

 
At 4:04 PM, October 15, 2005, Blogger PatCA said...

Eeuw, that little raised fist is so...pathetic.

 
At 4:11 PM, October 15, 2005, Blogger Judith said...

Thank you, NN. The right has its own brand of PC.

 
At 4:14 PM, October 15, 2005, Anonymous erasmus said...

Observation from the DC area: female assistants to liberal Democratic Senators and Representatives and those to conservative Republicans: equally good-looking.
Wazzit mean? I dunno. Maybe it's the political system. Maybe the genes.(Less in-breeding?) Maybe the diet.

 
At 5:30 PM, October 15, 2005, Anonymous tequilamockingbird said...

Sorry if I'm being dense, but what was the "original assertion" we were supposed to respond to? I get the drift of your message, but not the specifics.

Laura Bush is a babe.

tequilamockingbird

 
At 5:38 PM, October 15, 2005, Anonymous tequilamockingbird said...

What, people are taking this thread seriously? Please, neo-neocon, tell the wingnuts that you're not serious.

tequilamockingbird

 
At 7:02 PM, October 15, 2005, Blogger chuck said...

tequilamockingbird,

Please, neo-neocon, tell the wingnuts that you're not serious.

What? You mean lefty babes really *are* ugly? Wow, talk about revelations.

 
At 8:08 PM, October 15, 2005, Anonymous tequilamockingbird said...

Thanks for the contribution, Chuck. That's helpful.

tequilamockingbird

 
At 8:35 PM, October 15, 2005, Blogger Daniel in Brookline said...

For the record, let's remember that 'attractive' doesn't mean just physical attractiveness. To most of us over 30 -- and a fair number under 30 with brains larger than their glands -- knowing that there's someone at home upstairs can mean a lot. And for those of us who associate extreme liberal views with immaturity, this becomes less attractive.

AVI points out something else in passing -- the rebels these days sneer too much! (I have never yet seen someone look attractive through a sneer.) Add to that the tendency of some to neglect personal hygiene and grooming (which I mentioned a bit here), and you have the chance for some serious self-selection.

Personally, I don't worry about it. My wife is, to my eyes, gloriously gorgeous... and she's a Libertarian: socially liberal, fiscally conservative. It takes all kinds, I suppose.

respectfully,
Daniel in Brookline

 
At 8:44 PM, October 15, 2005, Anonymous Zsa Zsa said...

You know WILLisms. has had the babe theory! I really love that picture of Hanoi Jane

 
At 10:52 PM, October 15, 2005, Blogger Bookworm said...

Moving aside from celebrity politicos, it may have something to do with make-up. Amongst the liberals in many communities (say, San Francisco or Berkeley) make-up and attactive clothing are considered classist. Faces without make-up; hairy legs and armpits; and sagging, un-bra-ed breasts seem to be badges of honor for certain women on the Left. Witness these pictures (warning: many have really unattractive nudity).

 
At 10:55 PM, October 15, 2005, Blogger Bookworm said...

Moving aside from celebrity politicos, it may have something to do with make-up. Amongst the liberals in many communities (say, San Francisco or Berkeley) make-up and attactive clothing are considered classist. Faces without make-up; hairy legs and armpits; and sagging, un-bra-ed breasts seem to be badges of honor for certain women on the Left. Witness these pictures (warning: many have really unattractive nudity).

 
At 12:09 AM, October 16, 2005, Blogger Vox Populi - Agent Provocateur said...

I am a neo-neocon myself but I must recognize that lefty women look prettier

 
At 8:56 AM, October 16, 2005, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Interesting definition of attractive. I am not sure whether any philosophy has a lock on beauty. What bothers me is the emptiness that comes out of the mouths of supposed liberal people. Most couldn't meet the definition of liberal with their hands tied around it. What is liberal about Modo "its all about me" Dowd?

 
At 10:09 AM, October 16, 2005, Blogger Ymarsakar said...

And now, I have a question for those who agree with the original assertion: do you think that becoming more conservative is the equivalent of getting some free plastic surgery?

Only if they go into the military.

By the by, it seems the perception is that if a person has views coinciding with yours, and they happen to be attractive, then they become more beautiful, more mentally/physically healthy in that person's eyes.

Opposite for what happens on the other side one's political spectrum.

But, it's not just agreement on issues, it is how those issues are framed as well, the tone and moderation. One would not want to hear, let alone see, any shrillness on the right that, even though conservative, has not been articulated well.

I first saw this thesis concerning Baby Boom generation anti-war protestors, and college age grouped pro-war protestors.

All in all, one would have to say that the younger generation usually looks more beautiful than the older generation, given how beauty is tied to health a lot. Mental and physical.

Here's the picture of the Left.
Left

Picture of the Right

 
At 12:05 PM, October 16, 2005, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Laura Ingraham, Ann Coulter, Tammy Bruce, Monica Crowley, Linda Chavez, (the late) Barbara Olsen, etc. Really, there is no shortage of beauty on either side.

 
At 12:42 PM, October 16, 2005, Blogger flenser said...

Young people tend to be more attractive than older people. They also tend to be more idealistic than older people. Since the "right" is seen as being more idealistic these days than the "left", it would make sense that attractive young people, and young people in general, are moving to the right.

 
At 12:46 PM, October 16, 2005, Blogger Dave Schuler said...

Outrage (the stock and trade of activists and radicals of all political stripes) does tend to age one.

 
At 1:59 PM, October 16, 2005, Blogger EddieP said...

Bookworm

Thanks for the link

Some of the Berkley protestors in your link were protesting the circumcision of young boys. No where did I see protests against clitoral circumcision performed by the Religion of Peace.

 
At 3:44 PM, October 16, 2005, Blogger Brad said...

Michelle Malkin alone moves the pulchritude question to the right!

 
At 5:31 PM, October 16, 2005, Blogger Judith said...

I'm hanging out with a lot of Republicans and conservatives these days: paunchy nerdy guys with bad haircuts, in suits. I know a lot of liberals: paunchy guys with no hair in front and long grey ponytails in back, in jeans.

The women of both cultures tend to have about the same mix of nerdy stooped older women and young babes.

 
At 8:49 PM, October 16, 2005, Anonymous strcpy said...

I do believe that was a joke post - at least I've said the same thing many times and meant it as so (or as an attempt to get someone who takes everything seriously riled up over something stupid).

That being said Maureen Dowd isn't particularly attractive to most males. While the photo you picked of her is OK, with correct makeup and skill an artist can make even me look good (and, truthfully, that isn't the easiest thing - physical beauty has never been one of my charms). If that is as good as one can make her look, I would bet that her physical beauty is about the same as mine. Heck, I wouldn't even recognise her there based on any other times I've seen her. The rest were/are pretty good looking.

 
At 11:10 AM, October 18, 2005, Anonymous Shouting Thomas said...

None of the women here are particularly attractive.

After many years of self-abuse, I abandoned any romantic contact with white women, and particularly with leftist white women. They're are almost all feminists.

That means that they blame white men for all the evils of the world.

Why put up with it?

I decided to put my self-interest first. Since then, I seek romantic satisfaction only from Asian women, and particularly from Filipinas.

Why put up with the bad attitude and the spoiled brat sense of entitlement of a white woman?

 
At 6:52 PM, October 18, 2005, Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

Not that you're generalizing or anything...

 
At 7:09 PM, October 18, 2005, Blogger Ymarsakar said...

Western Women are more decadent than Asian or second/third world countries' women are.

Decadent in the sense that there are fewer virtues, a belief that duty is outdated, and so on.

 
At 11:57 AM, October 21, 2005, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well, since this started out with "pulchritude", I got a flashback to a tenth-grade Latin class.
"What's the Latin for beauty," asked the teacher, "and if you guys say 'magnitude' I'll kill you."

 
At 2:33 PM, October 21, 2005, Anonymous Richard Aubrey said...

Further to the activist/pulchritude:

I was involved in a couple of projects when I was in college which would have been associated with what was loosely called "The Movement".
I would say that the women ran the average gamut. But there was an underlying feeling that attractiveness was not quite quite and some went out of their way to look worse than necessary. With a bit of superiority in attitude, too.

But they weren't the only activists. The inter-sorority organization ran and funded a community center for kids in a poor area near the campus. I joined that one. I figured they needed a guy. Since I was the only guy, I got to know a number of them.
I don't consider their project "leftwing" and I figured their politics, if they had any--most people of that age didn't--would be right wing. Mine were and they didn't argue with me.
Unlike the lefties with whom I worked at other times.

If you have to join a group, join one recruited from sorority row. The pulchritude factor is overwhelming.

Too bad I can't come up with competing group photos.

 
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