Monday, October 03, 2005

Yeah, and Goebbels was the "spiritual leader" of the Nazis

I am truly sick and tired of this business of calling terrorist cheerleaders "spiritual leaders."

In some ways it's worse than the "militant" thing; at least terrorists are militant. But how are people such as Abu Bakar Bashir, a cleric who most agree is the one who inspires and guides the murderers of Jemaah Islamiyah "spiritual" (unless, of course, the spirit of evil and hatred counts)?

Is it because he hides behind the role of cleric? Well, the mere title "cleric" does not a spiritual leader make. It's a perversion of the word and the concept "spiritual" to use it to refer to people like Bashir--or to that other well-known spiritual leader, the late Sheikh Ahmad Yassin (see this).

And why, by the way, are these guys so often frail and elderly? Here is the wispy and oh-so-spiritual Bashir in 2002 on the subject of the first Bali bombings:

Asked if there was anything he wanted to say to families who lost relatives in the bomb blast, he said: "My message to the families is please convert to Islam as soon as possible."

Mr Bashir offered no sympathy for those who died; just his belief that by converting to Islam, the survivors could ensure they would avoid the fate of those non-Muslims who died and went to hell.

Sitting cross-legged on the carpet in a run-down house that serves as headquarters for the Indonesia Mujahideen Council, an umbrella group for a cluster of radical Muslim groups, the gently spoken cleric also had a more ominous message he wanted conveyed to Australians.

"The second message is for Australia because you suffered the most: please advise your government not to follow the US policy because it will bring tragedy for your country"...

I think the bomb was done by foreign intelligence, especially US intelligence. The indications are Americans and Jews did it to justify the claims that have been made so far that Indonesia is a terrorist haven. What they mean by terrorists is Muslims. So to prove their theory they created the incident in Bali.

Spiritual as all get-out.


At 2:29 PM, October 03, 2005, Blogger THIRDWAVEDAVE said...

Sick and tired as well.

At 4:51 PM, October 03, 2005, Anonymous Anonymous said...

It was the Jooooos! (Imagine that!) Happy New Year to you all!

There have been irresponsible clerics of many faiths. Father Charles Coughlin, the anti-semitic priest who broadcast his message of hate before the Second World War, is one example.

In the post-9/11 world, Muslim clerics in overwhelming numbers, and with few exceptions, seem to have been happy to spread a message of chauvinism, bigotry and hatred. Islam seems stuck in the Seventh Century. Tragically, the use of force will be necessary to contain its worst excesses for the foreseeable future.

At 5:05 PM, October 03, 2005, Blogger Brad said...

This tendency toward stock phrases and descriptors also begs the question: Can't each journalist write in their own voice? Maybe I don't want the answer.


I have always enjoyed your posts. But starting Tuesday at 3 we become sworn enemies! (unfortunately I think your nation will prevail)

Brad from Chitown

At 6:38 PM, October 03, 2005, Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

I think your second take was closer than your first. We give "spiritual" a positive cast, but it's essentially neutral morally. It just sounds as if it is given over to finer thoughts.

How about "the spiritual leader of crazed murderers?" That captures the contrast well, doesn't it?

At 7:51 PM, October 03, 2005, Blogger neo-neocon said...

Brad: can't we all just get along :-)?

At 6:03 AM, October 04, 2005, Blogger goesh said...

I'm sick and tired of the civilized world refusing to declare total war and using whatever means necessary to eradicate the scourge of islamic terrorism.

At 7:34 AM, October 04, 2005, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Happy Rosh Hashanah, as well.

AVI up there has a good point about spiritualism. Being a Christian in the west, when I hear of a spiritual leader, my pastor comes to mind first, or maybe a rabbi or priest; basically any figure that has a positive morality attached to it. But that's just conditioning. New Age spiritual leaders are horribly moral-neutral (when their wordlview is distilled, that is), and as we see in numerous fatwahs, they can be horribly amoral as well.

At 9:34 AM, October 04, 2005, Blogger troutsky said...

Goesh wants to "declare total war and use whatever means necessary" in true Nazi fashion.Funny how conflict brings out the totalitarian in you cons.Perhaps if all Muslims were placed in concentration camps, we might have a final solution? He could end up as a spiritual leader like Pat Robertson.

At 11:25 AM, October 04, 2005, Blogger goesh said...

Troutsky, I don't deem all muslims to be terrorirsts - far from it. I do advocate killing imams that openly advocate terrorism and attacking US forces. I advocate blowing up mosques where messages of terrorism are preached. I advocate crossing borders with cruise missles to blow up safe houses, headquarters and private dwellings of known terrorist leaders. I advocate abducting whenever possible family members of known terrorists and holding them incognito indefinitely. I advocate suspending all Consitutional considerations to known terrorist orgnanizations and individuals. I advocate disarming seriously wounded enemy combatatants and leaving them lay where they fell and not providing them any medical treatment. I advocate no prisoners in firefights, that all armed foes be killed where found on sight, that once they shoulder a weapon it is to the death. I advocate killing them with the same coldness employed against nazis and imperial japanese forces of world war 2. I and my kind are no different then the jihadis in Iraq - I follow the rule of Law as set down by my nation and leaders, just they follow the rule of law set down by al quran and their imams. There is no room for my kind and their kind to co-exist, only one of us can remain standing. History shows that my kind can and does convert their swords to plowshears. Can you say the same of the jihadis? I think not.

At 6:57 PM, October 04, 2005, Blogger Assistant Village Idiot said...

Goesh -- I'm not sure you should have taken the bait. Troutsky immediately set up a straw man and accused you of advocating things you did not. Do you now expect him to suddenly see the light of reason because you explained more fully? There'll be something new to object to...

At 6:11 AM, October 05, 2005, Blogger goesh said...

There is no satisfying such folks, but I needed to make my feelings known. I recently came across a Sociologist, highly educated, who believes that in Viet Nam, tens of thousands of Vietnamese had their throats slit by US soliders. The only saving grace of such idiocy is that it serves to keep people away from that lunatic fringe. I'm not putting Troutsky in that category - he is in the camp of folks who have not been able to come to grips with their gut-wrenching fear of jihadists. Their angst and anger is directed away from the jihadis because the basis of their fear is the fact that they must believe that all human beings are subject to the laws of reason and rationality. Fault lies with others then when jihadis don't act with reason and rationality. This has been addressed here before, but this deep fear is in itself a threat and danger.


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