Monday, March 13, 2006

Another changed mind: Dr. Wafa Sultan

Many--if not most--of you have probably heard of Dr. Wafa Sultan by now.

She's the talk of the blogosphere (try doing a Techorati search and see how many links turn up), a woman of immense courage who's risked speaking out against the Moslem religion and the uses that have been made of Islam lately. She's an American and a psychiatrist, born in Syria but living and working in this country.

Dr. Sultan is one of those "moderate Moslems" that many have been seeking, Diogenes-like, and she is nothing if not outspoken. This recent profile in the New York Times caused quite a stir, and she's received a number of death threats from those who were somehow able to obtain her phone number.

Dr. Sultan's notoriety began with an interview on Al Jazeera (a partial transcript may be found here) in which she accuses the Moslem religion of oppressing human rights and of religious intolerance. A few quotes:

The clash we are witnessing around the world is not a clash of religions, or a clash of civilizations. It is a clash between two opposites, between two eras. It is a clash between a mentality that belongs to the Middle Ages and another mentality that belongs to the 21st century. It is a clash between civilization and backwardness, between the civilized and the primitive, between barbarity and rationality. It is a clash between freedom and oppression, between democracy and dictatorship. It is a clash between human rights, on the one hand, and the violation of these rights, on other hand. It is a clash between those who treat women like beasts, and those who treat them like human beings. What we see today is not a clash of civilizations. Civilizations do not clash, but compete.

[...]

Host: I understand from your words that what is happening today is a clash between the culture of the West, and the backwardness and ignorance of the Muslims?

Wafa Sultan: Yes, that is what I mean.


Not very PC, is Dr. Sultan.

According to the Times profile, Dr. Sultan is writing a book that she believes is "going to turn the Islamic world upside down." I hope she lives to finish it. Recently she's been Salman Rushdiezed, and there seems to be a target painted on both her front and her back.

I have a special interest in Dr. Sultan because she's a "changer," and a psychiatrist as well. What occasioned her change? Here's what the Times profile has to say about that:

Dr. Sultan grew up in a large traditional Muslim family in Banias, Syria, a small city on the Mediterranean about a two-hour drive north of Beirut. Her father was a grain trader and a devout Muslim, and she followed the faith's strictures into adulthood.

But, she said, her life changed in 1979 when she was a medical student at the University of Aleppo, in northern Syria. At that time, the radical Muslim Brotherhood was using terrorism to try to undermine the government of President Hafez al-Assad. Gunmen of the Muslim Brotherhood burst into a classroom at the university and killed her professor as she watched, she said.

"They shot hundreds of bullets into him, shouting, 'God is great!' " she said. "At that point, I lost my trust in their god and began to question all our teachings. It was the turning point of my life, and it has led me to this present point. I had to leave. I had to look for another god."


So here we have Sultan's 9/11, her personal watershed moment, and a very traumatic one it was. She and her husband began to plan to emigrate to America, but the move took them ten years to accomplish.

Recently, as Dr. Sultan's anger and drive to do something about what she saw happening in the Arab/Moslem world increased, she started writing for this website, "Annaqed." That, in turn, prompted the invitation to speak on Al Jazeera. Now, as a result, she needs protection from those who would kill her because of what she's done.

I've written earlier about how change sometimes happens quickly and sometimes gradually (see this post, in particular the comments section). Dr. Sultan seems to have been subject to both types. The original sudden shock was her presence at the shooting of her teacher by thugs shouting the name of Allah, but she's also been evolving more slowly ever since, from private to public figure.

Dr. Sultan is sophisticated and knowledgeable enough about the forces arrayed against her that she must have known what the reaction to her statements on Al Jazeera would be, and so her "coming out" was at grave personal and familial risk. How does a person get such courage (courage which I doubt I'd have, by the way)?

Dr. Sultan's description of witnessing the murder of her professor certainly explains something, but when you really think about it, it actually doesn't explain all that much (I'd love to get a chance to interview her and ask a few more questions). That 1979 classroom was full of students, but I doubt many of them had a similar reaction to Dr. Sultan's.

My hunch is that something in this woman was already primed for a change, and the terrible incident only provided the spark. Granted, it was an especially dramatic and horrific event, and she witnessed it up close and personal, maximizing its impact. The nature of the incident itself--the murder of a professor, representing the forces of knowledge and science, by gunmen invoking the will of Allah--was both a personal tragedy and a metaphor for her present cause. Dr. Sultan, already a medical student at the time, probably had a special scientific and logical bent, as well as an interest in human behavior and motivation, and I imagine that these qualities provided at least part of the impetus for her resultant turn away from strict adherance and blind acceptance of all the tenets of her faith and towards intellectual freedom and the defense of human rights.

But even that doesn't explain the mysteries of the human heart and mind, the wellsprings from which she draws her formidable bravery. My guess is that some of this is rooted in her relationship to her parents and siblings, and how they may have encouraged her independence of mind, and perhaps her husband as well (he seems to have been supportive right from the first).

And some people just seem to have a deeper integrity than others, and feel driven to speak out no matter what the personal consequences may be. They are heroes of a very special sort.

I recall reading a book some time ago that attempted to analyze those people who made the decision to save or protect Jews in Poland during the Holocaust, at the risk of their lives and those of their families as well. The book, by Nechama Tec, is called When Light Pierced the Darkness," and I recommend it highly to anyone interested in these questions.

Some of those "savers" were motivated by money and personal gain, some by political dedication (Communists were overrepresented, for example), some by religious faith. There was a significant number, however, who didn't explain their actions by any of those things, but who seem to have been motivated by something else. I think that same something may be what's driving Dr. Sultan. And what is that something?

I'm doing this from memory, but I would state it this way: they couldn't live with themselves if they didn't act. These people were often a bit puzzled as to their motivations; they couldn't explain them too well, and seemed to think "anyone else" would have done the same. This of course is demonstrably incorrect; most people did not do the same; most people don't have the courage. But the ones who do have it appear to have come to some sort of peace with the danger involved, and to have decided that the shame/guilt they would feel about doing nothing is greater than their fear of the consequences of acting. I believe this is what's going on with Dr. Sultan.

Dr. Sultan is no longer religious, but she has nothing against anyone else practicing religion. Her motivation is human rights and tolerance of all faiths, and she throws down the gauntlet in this exchange from the Al Jazeera interview:

Wafa Sultan: I am not a Christian, a Muslim, or a Jew. I am a secular human being. I do not believe in the supernatural, but I respect others' right to believe in it.

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: Are you a heretic?

Wafa Sultan: You can say whatever you like. I am a secular human being who does not believe in the supernatural...

Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli: If you are a heretic, there is no point in rebuking you, since you have blasphemed against Islam, the Prophet, and the Koran...

Wafa Sultan: These are personal matters that do not concern you.


Dr. Sultan knows exactly and precisely what is happening here: she is declaring herself in front of the entire Al Jazeera audience in such a way as to be labeled a heretic and be placed under penalty of death. Her declaration of the Enlightenment creed of personal and religious freedom, "These are personal matters that do not concern you," is one of the bravest acts I've ever seen.

Is Dr. Sultan afraid? She says not, except for worry about the safety of her family back in Syria. The following is the statement of hers that led me to believe that she shares the motivation of those Holocaust rescuers who declared that they simply could not do other than what they've done, whatever the personal consequences. Her decision was made some time ago, and now it's more important for that she speak out than to protect her life or even the lives of her relatives:

"I have no fear," she said. "I believe in my message. It is like a million-mile journey, and I believe I have walked the first and hardest 10 miles."

I wish the best of luck to Dr. Sultan on her journey; she will undoubtedly need it. Let us all hope (and pray, if we are religious) that she lives a long and productive life; that her message reaches--and touches--those who need to hear it; and that others of her persuasion find the same sort of astounding courage within themselves to speak out, as light pierces the darkness.

60 Comments:

At 4:10 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger terrye said...

Yes, Dr. Sultan is a brave woman.

I read that article and thought of Azar Nafisi who wrote Reading Lolita in Tehran.

Both women had a journey to make.

I noticed she is no longer a religious woman. I respect her decision to leave her faith, but I wish we would see more people working within the faith to reform it, if possible. The fact that she is public about leaving the faith will limit her influence within the Muslim I fear.

But nonetheless...her message is one they need to hear.

 
At 4:42 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger Sigmund, Carl and Alfred said...

Superb post- as usual.

In fact, when you discuss "When Light Pierced the Darkness," the book by Nechama Tec, about Poles risking their lives to save Jews, you highlight an interesting reality. Today, Arabs that did the same (in North Africa, for example), cannot even bring themsleves to admit that there were those who performed that heroic act and saved their Jewish neighbors.

That is how far the Arab world has gone- that even saving a Jew from death is an outrage against Islam.

 
At 4:43 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger gcotharn said...

Dr. Sultan, and the providers of sanctuary during the Holocaust, maybe are and were able to see clearly in a way others did not. Dr. Sultan is maybe able to see costs and benefits - of action an inaction, more clearly than others. Also, Dr. Sultan and the sanctuary providers are and were able to look truth squarely in the face, without retreating to the comfortable fantasy of denial, and/or of repression of difficult thoughts and emotions. Salute.
And prayer. It is taking a long time - longer than I ever imagined - but more and more Islamic voices of moderation are speaking out - ever so gradually, bit by bit.

 
At 7:03 PM, March 13, 2006, Anonymous Rorschach said...

I don't know whom she hopes to reach.

Beyond doubt, when the interviewer called her 'heretic,' he was merely voicing unspoken opinions of millions of viewers across Arab world. As soon as they heard her spewing unorthodox opinions, iron gates slammed closed on millions of minds: "Her opinions are not important, for she has turned traitor to Allah."

Does anyone really believe that she will reach anyone open-minded enough or brave enough to listen? Al-Jazeera is not the place to attempt to broadcast unorthodoxy; those who weren't plugging their ears to avoid hearing heresies were undoubtedly sitting in front of TV, growing angrier and desiring Dr. Sultan's immediate death.

 
At 8:02 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger bob said...

I saw her interview on TV a while ago. She is an amazing woman. She spoke in 'fast forward,' but remained extremely articulate. Her interviewer's comments about her being a heretic were an attack; not a question. She held her ground. If nothing else, she will give some of us in the west the hope that there are other reasonable, intelligent people in the middle east who may some day be in a position to lead and influence others in the area.

 
At 8:22 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger Jamie Irons said...

I agree with Bob; to really get the flavor of Dr. Wafa Sultan (and what a beautiful name, by the way!) you have to see the actual interview. Her fearless confrontation of the idiot "imam" will have an effect on every Muslim woman that sees it.

Neo,

This is one of your best pieces. I think you have hit the nail on the head as to what motivates a person like Wafa Sultan.

My Alex is one of these types. (We seem to have named him presciently: Alexander comes from Greek alexo "I ward off, protect, defend or assist" and aner (Gen. andros "man"), hence "protector of men.")


Jamie Irons

 
At 8:39 PM, March 13, 2006, Anonymous Sally said...

Just wanted to say that on this (as opposed to child support) I agree with you 100% -- very well said, to you, and well and bravely said to Dr. Sultan.

 
At 8:42 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger Dymphna said...

Dr. Sultan is an example of cultural or religious Darwinianism in action...Islam drives out or kills the smart ones, the curious ones...eventually all they have left are dolts.

I believe it was Dinocrat or Planck's Constant who pointed out the absolute dearth of patents given to Muslims in the last, say, twenty years. It's not quite in negative numbers but it would be if you added in the sum of intelligence they've erased in that time.

BTW, Dinocrat is a former (33 years) Democrat who, like you, got off the boat.

I'd like to see Islam succeed in the modern world but unlike Christianity and Judaism in the West, they've not made their peace between faith and reason...for myself, I'm reading Hafiz' poems for Lent. Unfortunately, the mullahs and imams made his life miserable in the 13th century and much of his work was lost. What hasn't been is utterly sublime:

FORGIVE THE DREAM

All your images of winter
I see against your sky.

I undertand the wounds
That have not healed in you.

They exist
Because God and love
Have yet to become real enough

To allow you to forgive
The dream.

You stil listen to an old alley song
That brings your body pain...


I'll stop it there; it's enough to provide the flavor of his work.

He says, "a true saint/Is an earth in eternal spring."

He is also by turns very, very funny.

 
At 8:49 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger Holmes said...

I disagree with an earlier commenter that it does not matter if she speaks. The fact that she spoke up is the important thing. Perhaps there are others of likemindedness who need her example. Maybe there will be no effect at all, but the result is not as significant as the action.

 
At 9:14 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger Goesh said...

Very brave and courageous indeed, and what a time for her to be speaking out, so close on the heels of the cartoon hysteria. Her opponents/foes felt threatened by her on a personal and spiritual level. That one fellow in particular wanted to literally reach out and strangle her. And speaking of another changed mind, I'm sure a number of readers here are already familiar with the Religious Policeman -

http://www.muttawa.blogspot.com/

This Saudi has some brilliant satire and he really lays it on the Saudis. I suspect his mind has been changed for quite some time and he is well worth reading.

The Big Pharoah is another 'changed mind' and a strong moderate voice coming from Egypt.

 
At 10:19 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger Papa Ray said...

I wonder what Dr. Sultan would say to this thug?

Sadr condemns Rumsfeld, turn against his Sunni allies and threaten to kill Shiite women in the UIA.

Papa Ray
West Texas
USA

 
At 10:28 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger ShrinkWrapped said...

Neo,
As you know I have a particular interest in Narcissism and can probably be criticized as seeing things through the lens of pathological narcissism more often than deserved, however, a key aspect of Narcissism that is germane to your discussion is the relative dearth of empathy in the Narcissist. When people elevate ideology (whether religious or political) above real people, it suggests a level of pathological narcissism that is problematic. When empathy is so impaired or lacking, the "other" is seen as not-human and has no rights. Islam, as put forward by its spokesmen in the West, does this to a much greater extent than any other religion. It seems to me that a woman like Dr. Sultan not only has an open mind but has been unable to tolerate the kind of pathological and malignant narcissism that treats people as if they are objects whose sole purpose is to support the megalomania of the Islamists.
The Yiddish term for Dr. Sultan, and all those who "couldn't live with themselves if they didn't act", is "a mensch".

 
At 10:34 PM, March 13, 2006, Blogger Harry Mallory said...

Thats a fantastic post Neo. And to think some people think your posts are too long. Some of these, I cant read enough of.

The Dr. Sultans of the world tend to get lost or over-looked or plain ignored by the MSM and I, myself, am limited by work and other things in life to examine every news detail and often miss items I feel are important to know.

I visit few blogsites often, and yours is one of them I look at more often then most, generally because I like your analysis on various topics.

Hope to see many more in the future.

 
At 1:07 AM, March 14, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Mrs. Neo-neocon, are you upset that you didn't create a support group of people who were going through the same thing you were?

 
At 1:42 AM, March 14, 2006, Anonymous douglas said...

"Dr. Sultan, and the providers of sanctuary during the Holocaust, maybe are and were able to see clearly in a way others did not. Dr. Sultan is maybe able to see costs and benefits - of action an inaction, more clearly than others."
It doesn't seem so much like a cost/benefit analysis (because one of those could lead one to preserve ones safety, and perhaps quie reasonably so), but rather a reversal of the narcisism which so plagues us.
"Also, Dr. Sultan and the sanctuary providers are and were able to look truth squarely in the face, without retreating to the comfortable fantasy of denial, and/or of repression of difficult thoughts and emotions. Salute."
Indeed, being able to not rationalize things away is a key component. Salute indeed.

 
At 5:18 AM, March 14, 2006, Blogger camojack said...

Dr. Sultan is one of those "moderate Moslems"

While I have the utmost respect for the woman's bravery and convictions, she's no Muslim any longer, moderate or otherwise. So the search for that elusive creature Islamis Moderatus must perforce continue.

Having said that, however, I hope her message reaches many...

 
At 7:24 AM, March 14, 2006, Blogger Goesh said...

I suppose she is not muslim in the sense of no longer believing and buying into the fundamentalist interpretation of islam, but she probably retains her monotheistic beliefs and ascribes to mohammed a prophetic state, though no longer very applicable and not to be taken literally. She clearly demonstrates a core value of tolerance so common to all religions and espoused in islam. We may not see her own brand of jihad as being islamic simply because it is so rare and unexpected.

 
At 9:14 AM, March 14, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

These brave women-----Dr. Sultan, Irshad Manji, Hirsi Ali, Bat Yeor, Oriana Fallaci-----are trying to tell us all something. Only some of us are listening. Where is the news media? This enlightened uprising against islamic intolerance is far more important than a hundred storms or hunting accidents.

Why does the media waste our time on trivia when the historical revolution of an era is happening now?

 
At 10:12 AM, March 14, 2006, Blogger Goesh said...

"I probably mentioned before that I like "strong women". Mrs A is strong. Mrs A (Senior) is formidable. The so-called "second sex" have an equal share of the planet with the males, and bear an unequal share of its pain. They have every right, therefore, to tell us exactly what they think of us, and what we are doing wrong. We men need it."

This coming from a Saudi man in his Post about Dr. Sultan. It is encouraging to read his blog - he really lays it on the Saudis/fundamentalists:

http://muttawa.blogspot.com/

 
At 10:46 AM, March 14, 2006, Blogger maryatexitzero said...

Dr. Sultan's message (and her unique ability to kick Islamist butt around the block) is an inspiration, not to the Muslim world, but to us.

So-called moderate Muslims will not be able to influence general Muslim opinion because fascist influence is currently rising, not decreasing. They will be about as effective as 'moderate' Germans were during the Second world war - not very.

The "moderate Muslim" concept is a very Catch 22 - if a person rejects the teachings of Islamist Wahhabi-sponsored preachers (the majority), they are considered by the majority to be an "infidel" If they reject the extremism of their leaders, they become heretics, and they are shunned and threatened with death.

At this point in time, while Islam is dominated by Wahhabism/extremism, 'moderate' Muslims will not be accepted by the majority and will therefore not be able to influence the thinking of the majority.

By declaring hereself a 'secular' human being, Sultan alienated herself from the majority. It was the equivalent of a moderate German declaring that they had converted to Judaism in 1936. She might appeal to liberal muslims who actively reject Islamist values, but there are very few of them. Her message won't convince the fairly large majority of apathetic potential Muslim brotherhood/Sharia supporters to rise up against their fascist leaders.

But she can inspire us to value and defend our own rights and our own culture, a skill that we haven't practiced for decades. She is very much in favor of enlightenment values and human rights. Her defense of Western/Jewish accomplishment and culture is a lesson for all of us. How many Western media pundits or politicians confront Islamist fascism with her skill? How many Western pundits or politicians directly confront it at all? I'd guess the number is zero.

We can't expect Ms. Sultan to fight for us, but we can watch her and learn how it's done. Then, we go out and defend our own culture, and confront these Islamist/fascists ourselves. Maybe, after many years, we may be able to convince our politicians to do the same. Giving Ms. Sultan some political power would certainly help that process.

 
At 11:03 AM, March 14, 2006, Blogger Goesh said...

It's my day to blather I guess. I think Dr. Sultan is a secret hero to just about most intelligent muslim women and many men. The Religious Policeman alluded to an incident in Saudi that quickly got covered up when the Muttawa, the moral islamic code enforcers, got attacked for harassing someone. These thugs showed up at a bookfair too and started harassing some authors and there was dissent expressed over that. I'm not trying to come across as bubbling over with hope and wearing rose colored glasses, but all of the islamic world is not buying into the fundamentalist crap.

"I wrote before about how we never manage to keep friends. The Palestinians are our experts in losing any friends they have. I don't know why I have the feeling I wouldn't be very upset if all international aid agencies were to leave Palestine. I would feel much better. Learning a lesson sometimes hurts.

What did the Palestinians do? Well, Israel made the stupid decision to raid a prison in Jericho right after American and British monitors withdrew from the premise. What did the Palestinians militants do? They kidnapped 2 French! That's classic. And what were the French doing in the hell zone which is called Gaza? Working for a medical charity. Look at the situation we're in. Americans and British monitors withdraw from a jail, Israel raids it, and the Palestinian militants kidnap French people! How smart.

Not only did they kidnap 2 French doctors, they also kidnapped the director of International Red Cross and they threatened Americans and Brits who also do charity work in Gaza.

Well, the majority of Palestinians are against such kidnappings. Bullshit. This thing happened countless times, it seems it is rooted in Palestinian stupidity.

Palestinians, you are MORONS. Excuse me, I just can't find any other word."

The Big Pharoah - this guys is most assuredly muslim. It might not seem like much to us, but this is an extreme departure from the fundamentalist line of propoganda.

http://bigpharaoh.blogspot.com/

 
At 11:44 AM, March 14, 2006, Anonymous GM Roper said...

The bravery of people like Dr. Sultan, Schindler and many, many others is almost impossible for the human mind to grasp. As Shrinkwrapped noted, the proper descriptive word is "mensch" and that is almost not descriptive enough.

Great Post Neo, and UP there with the best that you have done. I'm glad that Pat Santy pointed me in your direction some time ago.

 
At 11:49 AM, March 14, 2006, Blogger Ymarsakar said...

I think people have to realize that in this propaganda war of ideas and realities, results aren't the goal here. It doesn't matter if she doesn't reach anyone or Islamics close their minds to her Enlightenment Principles. In the end, it is about those like her and their will to fight against the will to fight of the enemy, the head chopper brigade.

If you want results, kick down some doors and shoot the terroists in the head. Drop a JDAM, drop a MOAB, call in close air support Apaches and Spectre gunships. Those will net you RESULTS, that is armed propaganda. Propaganda isn't about results, propaganda is about demoralizing the enemy and raising the morale of your allies. This, she has done. She has raised the morale of Americans. That, by itself, would be a victory. Americans are seeing Muslims fight back, that gives us hope, gives us strength to keep fighting.

Results ain't going to help you guys if your willpower is so lacking you don't feel the need to eat. Like all slow killers, they are hard to recognize.

Her rhetorical style and cadences were very superior, on a technical scale. A sort of melody when you hear her speak on television. Or maybe it is just the Arabic accent, but regardless, it sounds very hypnotic and exotic. Exactly, what you need to make bored and demoralized Americans pay attention.

Jamie scores a good point. The Arab Muslim women are the strong points for American infiltration and support among the Mid East. The men are pretty hopeless, except in specific cases. The Arab Muslim women have much to gain and nothing to lose, when they see this video, and they will by the most part see this because of Al Jazeera. So in addition to raising the morale of American allies, she raises the morale of Muslim women and demoralizes Muslim men because to them she appears to be speaking and unable to be silenced. Since she lives in America, not Saudi Arabia.

While I have the utmost respect for the woman's bravery and convictions, she's no Muslim any longer, moderate or otherwise. So the search for that elusive creature Islamis Moderatus must perforce continue.

Having said that, however, I hope her message reaches many...


This is a trap people should try to avoid. If their definitions of a Muslim are that they must be men, intolerant, and jihadists, then obviouslly you will never find that elusive "moderate Muslim" by those criteria. Set the bar too high and the only thing you end up with is demoralizing yourself.

The "moderate Muslim" concept is a very Catch 22 - if a person rejects the teachings of Islamist Wahhabi-sponsored preachers (the majority), they are considered by the majority to be an "infidel" If they reject the extremism of their leaders, they become heretics, and they are shunned and threatened with death.

At this point in time, while Islam is dominated by Wahhabism/extremism, 'moderate' Muslims will not be accepted by the majority and will therefore not be able to influence the thinking of the majority.


Mary has a good point. If you want results, kick in doors and start executions. It ain't results we want, it is raising our people's morale to keep up the fight to remove Islamic extremists and allow another system to take its place, Sufism instead of Salafism, if you understand the different sects of Islam.

Catch 22s cannot be broken by actions, they may only be broken by propaganda and the art of informatin propagation. Magic also works, but we don't got real magic.

As for Mrs. Sultan, I do believe she is one of those examples of the human model that has exemplary willpower. Everyone has hidden desires of rationalization and denial, that is part of our mold, but it takes an extremely sharp mind and an extremely powerful will to break through those mental compulsions we all have. Education and problem solving abilities in the form of high IQ isn't enough, as everyone with anti-West anti-military anti-American liberal friends with 150 to 165 IQs already know.

I tend to think with enough willpower, you can convert fear to some kind of determination. When she says she has no fear, she may indeed be telling the truth. It is a different kind of courage than physical courage. Where adrenaline, endorphines, and fear all are in your system and your heart is kicking. Physical courage is one thing, purely by definition the doing of acts in the presence of fear. Moral courage differs somewhat. Because it seems to me, not so much as doing things in the presence of fear, as in converting fear to your own purposes. Whether saving lives, creating America's Most Wanted so other people's children might be saved, or fighting to expose Aruban police corruption and fecklessness, or any number of things.

She made the correct choice in coming to America. If she had went to Britain, Spain, France, Germany, or any number of European countries, she would already be probably dead or silenced. I told the Europeans to get to America by whatever means available, I can't make them come over here however.

I remember that there was a debate about free speech in Europe. Now Europe has no free speech, by any definition. While the cowboy Americans with our uncouth death penalty and our atrocious culture, is immune to intimidation and is in fact giving mercy to the terroists because of magnanimity and whatever. Could military power and willpower have anything to do with it, one might wonder?

If the hardcore Islamists want to get Sultan, they will have to get through some Americans just as hardcore if not more hardcore than the fanatics in the ME. Whereas in Europe, they can't wait to get in line to kowtow to their Islamic masters in return for personal safety. Because they don't have any patriots left willing or able to do violence to protect freedom of speech or whatever institutions they have left in Europe. That's sad, but it also shows you how Islam can destroy our culture. So I have to thank Europe for giving us as good a warning as we will ever get before the axe comes down.

Civilization is meant to promote people like Sultan and protect her from the depredations of liberty's enemies. It is the purpose of our premier civilization, and it is also part of the purpose of our premier military force in accordance with the symbiosis between civilization and military force.

 
At 1:34 PM, March 14, 2006, Blogger Huan said...

do not know if you are collecting series on changing minds, but here is another one. (no, not mine)
Pursuit of Serenity

 
At 2:27 PM, March 14, 2006, Anonymous Rorschach said...

Ymarsakar: This is a trap people should try to avoid. If their definitions of a Muslim are that they must be men, intolerant, and jihadists, then obviouslly you will never find that elusive "moderate Muslim" by those criteria. Set the bar too high and the only thing you end up with is demoralizing yourself.

No, the definition of a Muslim is one who believes in Allah. Dr. Sultan clearly states she is a secular person - therefore no longer believes in Allah.

My personal theory: one cannot be Muslim and moderate at the same time - must pick one. "Moderation" sure to be condemned as heresy, requiring Muslim equivalent of excommunication - usually involving heretic's death.

Islam categorically rejects all deviation from Koran as heresy. Thus, those who are moderate cannot be called Muslim.

 
At 3:46 PM, March 14, 2006, Blogger neo-neocon said...

Rorschach: I agree that Dr. Sultan isn't a Moslem, not any more. She's an apostate.

However, I disagree that one cannot be a Moslem and moderate. The fundamental wing of Islam (which, of course, is quite large and dominant, and has much support within the Koran) certainly thinks it is not possible. But there are others who define themselves as Moslems and are more moderate, and this is a historical strain in Islam with a long history.

Of course, the Wahabis, etc., define the moderates as not being Moslems. But the moderates do not accept that definition. In some ways, the current war with which we are dealing is a civil war between the different wings of Islam. At the moment, the moderates are not doing at all well. And although it's impossible to know how great are their numbers, they do in fact exist, and they define themselves as Moslems (although Dr. Sultan does not define herself that way). Why should we accept the other wing's definition of Islam rather than theirs?

 
At 10:08 AM, March 15, 2006, Anonymous Rorschach said...

NNC:

Because, moderate though they may be, almost none of them have Dr. Sultan's courage. There are very few actual moderate Muslim voices speaking out - remainder are just hiding themselves. They are moderates, and are NOT proud of it. If they had any pride or real faith in moderate Islam, would speak up to defend themselves.

Metaphorically speaking, moderate Muslims are up to chins in a lake of shit - last thing they want is for someone to make waves.

 
At 11:31 AM, March 15, 2006, Blogger Kobayashi Maru said...

NNC, you noted that "she needs protection... because of what she's done."

Small but important point: Wafa Sultan needs protection because of what she's said. Those whom she needs protection from would rather skip the talking part altogether and get right down to the physical violence.

 
At 3:49 PM, March 15, 2006, Blogger Ymarsakar said...

If their definitions of a Muslim are that they must be men, intolerant, and jihadists

I didn't say that a Muslim was or should be someone that didn't believe in Allah. As anyone may see.

Irregardless, it is still a trap people shouldn't fall into. For obvious reasons.

My personal theory: one cannot be Muslim and moderate at the same time - must pick one.

Since that is the theory of all the enemies of liberty loving people, I can't really recommend it.

They are moderates, and are NOT proud of it. If they had any pride or real faith in moderate Islam, would speak up to defend themselves.

By all means, do speak up, because speaking from the view of a terrorist, I would just love to know exactly who these people are and where they live.

What people miss here is the human psychology component, and the fact that it is ridiculously easy to get rid of people who mouth off in the Arab and European world.

Rorschach, for example , is incapable of offering moderate Muslims a big enough of a reward for speaking out in comparison to the risk of death, mutilation, and family eradication.

The same thing occurs in mob and gang controlled territories. People don't speak out, for various good reasons.

Fear and intimidation are very effective and they work on anyone. Although some people are mentally hardened, and therefore make hard targets. It just so happens that the Mid East kills so many people with their tactics that people can't ignore it like they do gang violence here in America.

 
At 10:21 PM, March 17, 2006, Blogger A. Shah said...

All you wanted to know about Wafa Sultan, the wannabe Voltaire of the Muslim world.

 
At 11:55 AM, March 18, 2006, Blogger snowonpine said...

Dr Sultan's statements have caused a sensation partly because they are among only a handful of such statements by a few courageous Muslims out of all the 1.2 billion Muslims on earth. I can well believe that in the closed, rigid theocratic societies most Muslims live in such statements can be met with enormous social pressure, ostracism or death. Nonethless,if there are large numbers of the ever elusive "Muslim moderates" they had better start to make themselves known or they risk being lumped in with Muslim fundamentalists when the hammer goes down.

 
At 12:22 PM, March 22, 2006, Blogger Hajji rifaat said...

I am a moderate Muslim man and I salute Dr. Sultan. May Allah bless and protect her in her difficult work. It appears to me that Islamists and radical Muslim political movements ignore the life and teaching of the Prophet Muhammed, (Peace and Blessings be Upon Him), when it suits their goals. On the return from battle, one of his companions spoke of completing from the jihad. The Prophet Muhammed (PBUH)said "we have completed the lesser jihad. It is time for us to embark on the greater jihad. The jihad within." He was speaking of our battle with our negative self. The lying, stealing, killing, oppressive self that each of us has within. We are all two people, the believer and the non-believer. It is our duty as Muslims to act from the believer. To control the non-believer. Killing innocents piles up bad deeds, which must be atoned for in this world or the next.

Dr. Wafa Sultan speaks from her believing self, whether she calls herself a Muslim or not.

Hajji rifaat
redneckmuslim@comcast.net

 
At 12:54 PM, March 22, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Wafa Sultan's eloquent claims in Eljazeera are not only bold and true to the core but hit at the crux of what has become inherently wrong with nations whose state religion is Islam. Although she was debating a cleric regarding terrorism, freedom of speech and politics in light of the recent publish cartoons and their subsequent riots, she also has managed to give a point of view of many us secular Arabs who want to see an end to the rise of "Islamo-Nationalist" ideologies sweeping many countries. I command her for her courage in the attempt to enlighten the clerics out of their rigid mentality, self-righteous ideas and illogical hatred of everything Western and Jewish. Her voice hits indirectly at moderate muslims too, because of their silence about this virulent Islamic obscurantist wave spreading everywhere (i.e case of the cartoons). This simply cannot be a thing to brush off as part of usual explanation: "religious extremits, they are part of all religions". Well, they may be, but not as destructive, barbaric and backwards as the latest events in Islamic nations. Wafa Sultan is trully a free thinker.

 
At 7:18 PM, March 22, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Islamophobia: a hatred or fear of Islam or Muslims 

"I don't believe you can reform Islam," Dr. Wafa Sultan said. “Islamic scriptures are riddled with violence, misogyny and other extremist ideas.Once you try to fix it, you're going to break it."

Dr. Wafa Sultan, a US citizen and former Muslim, is called a hero and widely quoted in the media for making this sweeping condemnation of the religion of Islam. Several million Americans are Muslims. Most Americans do not know this. They do not know much, if anything, about the religion of Islam. Their opinions of Muslims are formed by the horrible criminal acts committed on 9/11 and subsequent TV news. They do not personally know any Muslims. But many hate “them”, fear “them” or both. (surveys say 52 %)  And so they embrace and praise Wafa Sultan’s statements.
                                                                                                               
When the mainstream media hail someone as a hero and that person,herself, says that she is the self-appointed savior of people who wrongly believe in a major world religion, that person should expect fair and rational but close scrutiny. So consider this story below.(excerpt from The Times online/ UK/March 19, 2006)

“Sultan, who worked as a family practitioner in Syria after qualifying as a doctor, also speaks about the virulent anti-semitism that was inculcated in her and all Syrian children. This made her so terrified of Jews that she refused to act the part of the Israeli prime minister Golda Meir in a school play.
‘Until I came to United States I used to believe that Jewish people are not human creatures’ she says. ‘Unfortunately this is the way I was brought up, to believe that Jews don’t have our human features, they don’t have our human voices’.

In the first week she was in the United States she and her husband went to a shoe shop in Hollywood. Her husband asked the clerk where he was from and when he said that he was an Israeli Jew, ‘you can’t believe what I did’ she says. ‘I ran away without shoes, barefoot. My husband followed me. He said, ‘How stupid you are.’ But I said, ‘I cannot tolerate him.’ I was scared to death because he was from Israel; I reacted in a very bad, negative way, because of the way I had been raised, for the past 30 years of my life.”  (She is now 47.)

You have to be taught, very carefully taught, to hate a whole group of people.
Part of that is to learn to make sweeping generalizations. Apparently, judging by the above examples, Wafa Sultan was so taught.Then recently, Wafa Sultan was on TV praising the Jewish people as nonviolent. Unfortunately, it appears that she just transferred her prejudice to a different group of people."Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people and destroying embassies.” Prejudice needs to be identified and censured wherever and whenever it appears.

The Qur’an repeatedly emphasizes the unity of mankind and yet recognizes the diversity within humanity. Dialogue that is respectful, thoughtful and tolerent of different religions and cultures is a goal worth striving for.

 
At 2:06 PM, March 23, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do not agree with the last comment suggesting that Dr. Sultan shifted her phobia to Muslims. This claim is ridiculeous. She might have realized that her upbringing was anti-jewish and anti-semitic due to her awakening of the devastating religious and secular anti-jewish teachings. I am an Arab who grew up in Algeria during the 1950 and 1960's. Most of my friends were Jewish. They spoke my language, and they played with me, we shared food. Their families knew our families. We live in the same neighborhood. After the independence they all left and I cried, I was barely in my teens. I did not understand why they left. I understood it later. They were running for their lives, because the secular rulers thought they were collaboraters with the French, of course they were not. They were after them because they were assimilated to the French culture. The Muslims did not see any difference. But they were also educated Arab families that lived with the French and were also assimilated. Here is where the crux of the problem is situated. Why target only the Jewish community? Why do you go after them, humiliating them, and killing them, Why? As a kid I knew all these things, I was taught the "life" history of my Jewish friend. The new secular rulers and their new comers from the mountains who took over the properties of the Jews, had never lived, shared cummunally with the Jews. They remained anti-jewish.

After the departures of the Jews, life was fine for a few years but then things started to go wrong, economically, socially and politically. It was time for my family to immigrate to France, we were too assimilated to live under the gun of "half-baked" socialism run by uneducated idiots, and erratic islamic fervor that curbs individual rights and freedom. The latter (muslim extremists) have cuaght up with the former (secular rulers). We joined our fellow Jewish compatriots in exile. At least the jews have Israel to go to and feel safe, because Israel as a state as no other major importance than being a state where any Jewish person going there will never be told "you are not welcome here".

I think what Muslims need to do is to read history, particularly jewish history, because it has occured right in their background as a place and as history.
If Dr. Sultan went through all this anti-semitic education when she was young, I was not. The jewish kids I played with were like me, looked like me and were not too religious, my family was secular, religion played a minor cultural role and thank GOD for that. Being seculal at heart (jewish and Arab) brought us together in a common destiny and understanding.

That's why secular muslims should strive to secularize Islam. But can they? It really does not matter. Let them have control of countries, and they do (Saudia Arabia, Sudan, Pakistan, Indonesia etc..) Let them show us what type of society they feel proud about. I have not seen anything worth seeing after all this time. Pakistan has the atomic bomb, while half of its population lives a marginalized lives and in utter poverty. Let us not go to Saudia Arabia.

Anyway, my point is the Islamophobia is another "blame the victim" tactic. When will Muslims catch up with history, their glory days have past, and there is no point is glorifying the past because we live in the present.

 
At 10:03 PM, March 23, 2006, Blogger Ms. Blake said...

The only problem I see with your post is that Dr. Wafa Sultan is not a moderate muslim. She is a secular humanist who does not believe in anything supernatural. She states that very clearly in her interviews.

Other than that.. excellent post.

 
At 1:59 PM, March 24, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Something I should have added to my comment (one preceeding that of Ms. Blake) is that Dr. Sultan realized the devastating effects of her anti-semitic upbringing (islamic or secular)only after she came the U.S, which is quite recently.

I however was surrounded (to a degree) with anti-semitic diatribes from the culture,(but never within my family). My family and friends have given me the alternative knowledge that counter this twisted ideology, myths and stereotypes about the Jewish poeple. The knowledge was based on the facts of history. It is this history, this knowledge that Dr. Sultan has discovered in America.

I believe that Dr. Sultan is attacking the religious bigotry found in Muslim country. She is attacking the religious teaching of hatred of the others. She also indirectly going after the secular arab states for their deep seated anti-jewish propaganda found in their childrens' educational books and material). Recall that her comments that put her on the map were comments she made while debating the Islamic scholar Dr. Chouri in Eljazeera were after the cartoons riots and destructions.

That is why I said in my former comment that "the muslim extremists have caught up with the secular arab brothers" in their anti-jewish propaganda.

My point is this: islamic or secular it does not matter, the end result is the same illogical hatred of the others due to the bad education and brain washing. Proper education based on critical thinking could play a role, but how many generations should the Arab nations loose before the veil of ignorance is taken away? Because we are seeing that there are many people (islamic and secular) determine to fight on, nothing matter to them. The dark ages had their sacrificial crusades, some muslim nations are now on the verge of their sacrificial marches to victory and death.

By the way, I am an atheist. Once you got out of islam, secular humanist may be the alternative, but it does not mean a lot.

 
At 7:21 AM, March 25, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Memri, the agency that distributed the carefuly-selected clip of wafa, is run by ex-Israeli intelligence officers in Wash DC. It has a Zionist agenda based on showing Arabs and Muslims in the worst light. You might want to read this article by the British newspaper looong ago:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.html

 
At 6:05 PM, March 25, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Memri (Middle East Media Institute) may be run by ex Israeli army general or a foot soldier. It was started by a ex Israeli general, now it has a life of its own. What MEMRI.TV shows are clips from major Arab television stations all over the Middle East, among them the clip that made Dr. Sultan stand out. It shows excatly what Arab media are presenting to their public. Memri.TV show all kind of point of views. I liked the interview with the famous Syrian poet Adonis. I am not sure which TV station has run that interview. Adonis who is very respected made the point that the Arabs are lost a nation or culture. He said that it is not the brains and intellect that are in short supply among the Arabs, but what is lacking is the proper environment under which they can flourish and be creative. He also said that the Arabs are making contributions in sciences and medicine only in the West, where proper institution of free thinking and creativity are allowed.

Most of the clips in Memri.tv show what Iranian politicians, Saudia Arabian clerics and university professor are saying about the holocaust, Israel and Islam, and a whole host of political issues.

It is very distrubing what one hears. It is the same diatribes against the Jewish religion, Christianity and Westertern values. There is even a clip of a children program (a cartoon) depicting the Jews as monkeys and swine (as depicted in the Koran). That was so sick that I could not beleive it. How many children have watched that program? They are many like that targeting adult public.

The point that Memri is run by some individual of dubious legitimacy is simply not enough. Go and view and listen what the Arab media is presenting to its people. Nothing is brushed. What you see and hear is what everyone sees and hears in the Middle East.

Keep an ear for the latest news from Afghanistan where a convert to Christianity is going to be hanged for Apostaty. A fatwa has been released from some suprime islamic council in Saudia Arabia or Koweit claiming that the individual deserves death.

 
At 8:24 PM, March 26, 2006, Blogger A. Shah said...

Wafa was recently interview on Israeli National News radio by a far-right radio ranter Tovia Singer. You can check it out here.

 
At 3:35 PM, March 27, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

On what Islam has contributed to civilation: Anything since the 10th sentury?

On Islamic Terrorism: Terror is the history of Islam. Since before Christ and over centurys the Muhjadeen's have systematically envaded India from without and then from within, effectively destroying what was a wonderously rich and beautiful culture -- truly one of the great tragedies of human history.

If only a Dr. Sultan were running for President -- what a courageous, bright, and truth-telling person!!

 
At 4:22 AM, April 01, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

in the first i wanna to know who dr.sultan she is afucken bitch earning money from amrica and israel to say that i say to you wafaa if you adirty bitch and want to have afucken money if you be with out clothes that is more benfitis to you

 
At 4:57 AM, April 01, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey " 4.22am - 1st April 2006, Annonymous,

From the way you respond to Dr Sultan you must be a Muslim follower of MO. You simply cannot face the truth do you. Didn't your Mo expend his cult through raid, murder, genocide, pillage, treason, rape & deceit ? Didn't your MO encourage violence & terrorism ? Called upon his followers to wage jihad on non-muslim? And told them that when they die they will go to heaven where there will be 72 virgins, river of wine & pear like boys for them to enjoy ? All these are mentioned in the Quran.
This is for Terrye , you cannot reform Islam, reforming Islam means rewrite the Quran,Hadith & Sira, this is absurd.
Go visit the site www.faithfreedom.org, there are many articles about Islam writen by ex-slamic scholars, you will open your eyes.
God Bless The Free World.

 
At 9:47 AM, April 01, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am out. I should have chosen a nick name to identify myself. But even with that, someone else can still one's own pen name. I am totally new to the BLOGs thing on the internet. I thought there were forums for discussion and debate. I was wrong.

The rubbish TV talk shows of the 1990's have been transfered to the blog thing. Who would have guessed?

Long live democracy and free speech. Let everyone have a say or should I say "Rap" even if it does not lead to anything. Speech for the sake of speech. Everyone should exercise his/her right to speak even if one does not know what the subject is or the meaning of all this.

The following entry comments are mine, I would like to take them away if I can. I do not think they belong.
12:54 pm March 22
2:06 pm March 23
1:59 pm March 24
6:05 pm March 25

Carrying on with your blogs bloggers and others with their enlighten comments. There is always something new to say about Sultan, specially her character.

I am out.

 
At 2:47 AM, April 03, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I wish I knew how to find Wafa Sultan's Email and thank her for saying what she said.

 
At 6:07 PM, April 03, 2006, Anonymous Eugene said...

Hi Annonymous ( 3.47AM April 3rd ),
You want to know more about Dr Sultan, go visit www.faithfreedom.org.

 
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At 5:56 AM, April 07, 2006, Anonymous Peace of mind said...

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At 10:40 PM, April 10, 2006, Anonymous Abdul Muhaimin said...

http://talkislam.wordpress.com/2006/04/06/dr-wafa-sultan-part-3/

My Blog's Post on regards to the Dr.

Please read, it'd be nice if we can have a lay-convo on this. Thanks

 
At 10:42 PM, April 10, 2006, Anonymous Abdul Muhaimin said...

and please do invite anyone that would like to discuss this too.

 
At 4:04 PM, April 13, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Adbul Muhaimin. You killed this blog. Your link looks like a pseudo-open discussion blog. Try to trim the Muslim religious icons a little from your web pages. They are simply not too inviting with that propaganda hitting your in the face. Nice try anyway.

 
At 3:10 AM, April 17, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abdul Muhaimin,
I visited your link, those are propagandas. I notice this guy - Zakir Naik - he is just a showman,do not contaminate this blog.

 
At 7:03 PM, April 24, 2006, Blogger Abu Adam said...

The clip took place on February 21, 2006, when Al-Jazeerah TV aired a debate between Wafa Sultan, a secular ex-Muslim Syrian-American psychologist based in Los Angeles, and two Islamic scholars, Dr. Ibrahim Al-Khouli of Al Azhar University and Dr. Ahmad Bin Muhammad, an Algerian professor of religious politics who was the host of Al-Jazeerah.

The 'edited' clip http://switch5.castup.net/frames/20041020_MemriTV_Popup/video_480x360.asp?ai=214&ar=1050wmv&ak=null was not from Al-Jazeerah. It's from MEMRI TV. MEMRI is the abbreviation for Middle East Media Research Institute, a pro-Israel organization with headquarters in Washington DC and its Media Centre in Israel - "... a non-profit in Washington DC that specializes in translating and circulating mainly Arab-language materials, selected to display the Arab world in a poor light, to the advantage of Israel." http://counterpunch.org/news03292006.html

This may enlighten you about their organisation ....... Fake Saddam Interview Put Out By MEMRI : SF Bay Area Indymedia
http://www.indybay.org/news/2006/03/1812222.php

"A knowledgeable US government official has informed "Iraq News" that the 'remarkable' interview with Saddam Hussein, published by MEMRI TV, is almost certainly a hoax." Read More: http://counterpunch.org/news03292006.html

Did you not wonder if it was a debate, why was Wafa Sultan doing all the gibber-gabbering? Where are the responses from the two (2) Muslim participants in the debate? Why were they not given the opportunity to have the same air-time to respond to this woman? The way the video clip was going on-and-off so many times, isn't it obvious to you that the debate was one-sided and had been edited! Some debate!!!

Wafa's statements are a flagrant distortion of the truth. When it comes to terrorism Wafa is totally wrong in sugarcoating Jewish history. She fudges her claims here because Israeli authors Avi Shlaim, Tom Segev, Ilan Pappé and Benny Morris have written comprehensive and well-researched books about Israel's history and the major role terrorism had in it.

Here are some links on what the Torah/Talmud says about Jesus Christ and Christians for you to read:

1. "FACTS ARE FACTS" by Benjamin H. Freedman - http://www.iahushua.com/JQ/factsR4.html

2. "The Talmud Unmasked" by the Rev. I. B. Pranaitis: The Secret Rabbinical Teachings Concerning Christians


About Jesus and Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon them):

Here is an excerpt from Part 1, Chapter 1:

Article II No. 8 - Buried In Hell
The book Zohar, III, (282), tells us that Jesus died like a beast and was buried in that "dirt heap...where they throw the dead bodies of dogs and asses, and where the sons of Esau [the Christians] and of Ismael [the Turks], also Jesus and Mahommed, uncircumcized and unclean like dead dogs, are buried."

Please read more at this link: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmudx.htm


About Christians:

Here is an excerpt from Part 2, Chapter II:

Article I. - Harm must be done to Christians
A Jew is commanded to harm Christians wherever he can, both indirectly by not helping them in any way, and also directly by wrecking their
plans and projects; neither must he save a Christian who is in danger of death.

Article II. - Christians are to be Killed
V. A Jew who kills a Christian commits no Sin, but offers an acceptable Sacrifice to God, In Speher Or Israel (177b) it says: "Take the life of
the Kliphoth (see: http://www.truthtellers.org/alerts/areadlbnaibrithmasonic.html)and kill them, and you will please God the same as one who offers
incense to Him." And in Ialkut Simoni (245c. n. 772) it says: "Everyone who sheds the blood of the impious is as acceptable to God as he
who offers a sacrifice to God."

Read more horrific Jewish teachings at this link: http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/talmud2.htm


3. "The Truth about the Talmud" a documented exposé of Jewish Supremacist hate literature by Michael A. Hoffman II and Alan R. Critchley
http://www.stormfront.org/jewish/talmud.html


Wafa Sultan said: "Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people and destroying embassies." This is totally ridiculous accusation based on lies and prejudice. And predudice needs to be identified and censured wherever and whenever it appears. The Qur`aan repeatedly emphasises the unity of mankind and yet recognises the diversity within humanity. Dialogue that is respectful, thoughtful and tolerent of different religions and cultures is a goal worth striving for - this is the way of Islam.

Did she conveniently forget to mention the 1994 Abraham Mosque Massacre in Hebron when 30 Muslims were massacred by Jews as they were praying during the holy month of Ramadhaan?

No question, the behaviour of many Muslims and what is happenings in many Muslim countries are a shame but which faith community in the world does not have that kind of derailed people and that kind of incidents?

Portraying the entire Western world "civilised" and thereby including mass-murdering liars and warmongers like Bush, Rumsfled and Cheney into the group of the "good" (because they are non-Muslim westerners) while at the same time labeling all Muslims medi-evalists or violent is dishonest and unfair hate mongering. Read "The Hebron Massacre: Another "Defining Moment" in the Middle East"
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0494/9404015.htm

After reading the above information I provided you on the Talmud, please read the Qur`aan. If you're a truthseeker, find out for yourselves who the real terrorists are. http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/translations/yusufali/001.htm

 
At 12:15 AM, April 26, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No doubt about it, the so call debate between Dr Wafa Sultan & the muslim scholars were edited,there are actually a few different versions, how much depending on which site, tv news network ; pro-muslim, anti-muslim, those from the West, those from Arab conutries etc. I don't really care who ended up winner, the point is she told the truth. And a debate of such scale, especially on religion should not be held on TV with limited time, it's a big subject, it could take days or weeks or month.

 
At 2:55 AM, April 27, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Abdullah Abu Adam Sameer,

You are officially invited to debate with Ali Sina of www.faithfreedom.org . . . . see you there.

 
At 5:58 PM, April 27, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Islam is not a religion of peace. When I see a mosque, I see Trojan Horse. I know.

 
At 12:42 AM, May 05, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

s"Mohammed vs Jesus, the Christ"
Mohammed was the prophet of war; Christ is the Prince of Peace (Isaiah 9:6-7)
Mohammed's disciples killed for the faith; Christ's disciples were killed for their faith (Acts 12:2;2 Tomothy 4;7)
Mohammed promote persecution against the "infidels";Christ forgave and converted the chief persecutor (1 Timothy 1;13-15)
Mohammed was the taker of life; Christ was the giver of life (John 10:27-28
Mohammed and his fellow warriors murdered thousands; Christ murder none but saved many ( compare John 12:48)
Mohammed's method was COMPULSION; Christ's aim was voluntary CONVERSION (Acts 3:19)
MOhammed practiced FORCE; Christ preached FAITH (John 6:29,35)
Mohammed was a warrior; Christ is a DELIVERER (Col 1:13;1 1 Thessalonians 1:10)
Mohammed conquered his enemies with sword;Christ conquered his enemies with another kind of sword, the sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Hebrews4:12 Acts 2:37)
Mohammed said to the masses, "convert or die";Christ said,"believe and live !"
Mohammed was swift to shed blood(Romans 3:15-17); Christs shed his own blood for the salvation of many (Ephesians 1:7)
Mohammed preached "Death to the infidels!" ; Christ prayed" Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do" (Luke 23:34)
Mohammed declared a holy war(jihad) against infidels; Christ achieved a holy victory on Calvary's cross (Colossians 2:14-15) and his followers share in that victory (John 16:33)
Mohammed constrained people by conquest; Christ constrained people by love (John 16:33)
Modern terrorists derive their inspiration from Mohammed and carry out their despicable atrocities in the name of his god; Christians derive their inspiration from the One who said,"Blessed are the peacemakers" (Matthew 5:9)
Modern day disciples of Mohammed respond to terrorist attacks by cheering in the street; Modern day disciples of Christ are deeply grieved at past atrocities carried out by those who were " Christians" in name only (the Crusades,the Spanish Inquisition, etc.)
Many Muslims are peaceful and peace-loving because they do not strictly follow the teachings of their founder; Many Christians are peaceful and peace-loving because they do strictly follow the teachings of their founder (Romans 12:17-21)
Mohammed allowed that a Mullah,Imam or Mufti of Islam can be a terrorist and an amoral animal like Osama bin Laden; The Bible requires that a leader in the church of the Lord Jesus Christ must be above reproach, and when this is not true, Christians demand such a fallen leader be removed from leadership (1 Timothy 3:1-7, 5:19-20)
Islam calls on its followers to observe Five PIllars, while all other aspects of life can be vulgar and not affect the Muslim's prospects in Paradise. The Bible calls on the Christians to submit to the total change of his life by the Spirit of God --- No area of life and thought si the choice of the follower.(Romans 12:1-2)
The Muslim looks forward to eternity in Paradise where there will be virgins who are used for eternal perpetual copulation. The Bible believing Christian looks forward to being with Jesus Chris and is delighted with that. (2 Corinthians 5:8)
The KOran is a terrorist manual which condones fighting, conflit, terror, slaugther and genocide against those who do not accept Islam; The Bible is a missionary manual to spread the gospel of peace to all the world (Romans 10:15)
Mohammed considered Christ a good prophet: Christ pronounced (in his statement on many false prophet arising) Mohammed to be a false prophet (John1-0:10 m; Matthew 24:11)
MOhammeds tomb:OCCUPIED! Christ's tomb :EMPTY!

 
At 9:27 AM, July 02, 2006, Blogger Fahad said...

Wafa Sultan "Middle Eastern Dog Barking in the West at The Great Islamic Caravan" nothing new under the sun many such examples could found in our history ... The Dogs Barking and the Caravan continues...

 
At 9:17 PM, August 07, 2006, Blogger na_cheq said...

Dr Sultan is attacking all muslims and citing the acts of a tiny minority of extremists to justify her attack. it's be like calling up ALL christians on the acts of the KKK. Absolutely ridiculous! It's people like her who are adding to the problems we face in this world.

You claim that the events of 9/11 led to your transformation into a neocon. I am a Muslim and an Iraqi. During the 1st Gulf War I returned from an afternoon with relatives to the house of my grandfather to find nothing but rubble. I'm sure you can appreciate the numbing feeling of knowing I had been anywhere from an hour to minutes away from being taken out by an American cruise missile. Earlier today I read the story of how 4 American soldiers gang raped and murdered a 14 year old Iraqi girl having just killed her entire family. Now please tell me why I have not become the Arabic version of a neocon? Why do I not want Dr Sultan dead? Why do I not wish harm to you or any of your fellow Americans? Why do I wholeheartedly condemn suicide bombings? I could continue this line infinitely as I'm sure you can appreciate. I am certain your change in viewpoint was born of fear and anger at the horrific events of 9/11. A scapegoat enemy thousands of miles away who puts you and your loved ones in danger. Hence your support of the actions of your government. But surely this would entitle me to hold the exact same view towards America and Israel. the reason I do not is the teachings of my religion. This is why it infuriates me that criminal groups like Al Qaeda dirty the name of my faith. this is also why I am frustrated by the sweeping generalisations of the West and Dr Sultan.
The elite of both civilisations have their agendas and care very little for the welfare of people like you and i. The sad truth is that the governments and media of the world are breeding hatred between you and I and unfortunately the majority of us are not educated enough to see past this and realise that there are people just like us on the other side of this huge divide. people with whom we might be frienly in an ideal peaceful world.

 
At 1:20 PM, November 30, 2007, Blogger lilie said...

wafa sultan i don't care who you are but i am not sorry to say that you don't know nothing it's seames you were born in very week family or homeless girl and you need to show off and that's why you are talking that way

 

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