Tuesday, May 30, 2006

Petite woman of the world,unite! You have nothing to lose but your dowdy, ill-fitting dresses

Listen up--you are about to receive some intimate personal information about neo-neocon: I'm five feet, four inches tall. And, what's more, I tend to do better in petite sizes, despite the fact that 5'4" is ordinarily the cut-off for petites.

Trying on dresses, I usually look like a child borrowing my mother's clothing if I put on a regular misses size (and yes guys, you can tune out here if you like; this is gonna be bor-ing). Even if the dress fits elsewhere, the sleeves flop over my hands, the waist lies somewhere around my hips, and the shoulders are too big.

And now--quelle horreur!--I read that petite clothing sizes may be in jeopardy. Yes, three stores--Neiman-Marcus, Saks, and Bloomingdale's--have suddenly and simultaneously eliminated their petite departments.

Bummer and double bummer, even though I don't shop there. And I'm not alone in these feelings:

Feeling overlooked and undervalued, [petite customers] have written the stores angry letters and groused, often loudly, to salespeople. "It's horrible, just horrible," said Laurel Bernstein, 60, a 5-foot-1 Manhattan resident who stormed out of Saks's flagship store in March after learning that the company had stopped carrying petite sizes. A lifelong Saks shopper, she has not returned since.

The emotional response from petite consumers has proved so strong that Saks is reconsidering its decision. "It appears that we have frustrated some customers," said Ron Frasch, the chief merchant at Saks. "We are trying to figure out how many we have frustrated."


Some manufacturers of more upscale petite clothing have followed suit (pun intended) and plan to stop making their lines. But what they really need to do instead is change their lines.

Because one thing I can tell you is that it is hard work finding attractive clothing in petite sizes. Long ago I noticed that petite clothing tended to be dowdy. The Times article agrees:

...petite departments gained a reputation for traditional — some would say frumpy — career-oriented clothing. Chic looks, clothing executives said, never made the leap from regular sizes to petite. So the very word petite became synonymous with many women who shopped there — working women over the age 50.

I never could figure out the reason the styles were so old-fashioned and old-ladyish, until I looked around one day while shopping in the petite department and noticed that a great many of the other customers were elderly women who appeared to have shrunk.

That's not me, fortunately; I'm merely middle-aged, and I'm the same height I always was. And don't tell me to go to the junior department--not any more, although every now and then I do venture in there. But even though I'm not a frump (or, at least, I try not to be), jeans that end an inch above the top of my thighs and tops that end many inches above that are not exactly what I'm looking for.

But Ann Stordahl, executive vice president for women's apparel at Neiman Marcus, has a plan. She says that:

...designers were making clothing smaller than a decade ago and that Neiman Marcus orders extra size zeros and twos, knowing they will appeal to petite women. Even without petite sizes, she said, "there are many offerings for the smaller size customer."

Extra size zeros and twos, how marvelous!! Earth to Ms. Stordahl: "petite" does not mean "size zero or two." Although I draw the line at telling my dress size (revealing my height is quite enough disclosure for one day), let's just say it's a trifle larger than that. The same is certainly true for most petite women.

When I was younger, I don't think they even made size twos; at least, I don't recall seeing them in stores. Six was the lowest the sizes went, to the best of my recollection--a size I (sigh) recall wearing for a time in my ballet dancing days.

Now, though, there's been a proliferation of miniscule sizes (what's next, negative numbers?), as well as fashionable clothing in the Plus sizes so many women need. I suppose it's all another example of greater diversity, and we should applaud it. Which I do. But why, oh why, can't the petite woman be part of this trend and have some snazzier clothes?

27 Comments:

At 11:33 AM, May 30, 2006, Blogger goesh said...

That apple makes you look about 5'8" - 5'9". You remain a very mysterious woman.

 
At 12:07 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger Ymarsakar said...

Um, are you, Neo neo con and bookworm, synchronizing your posts or something? Cause BW write about the petite thing just a few days ago I believe. A coincidence or is this another case of telepathy?

I bet China is going to offer petite sizes, cause Asian women aren't very tall or big. The US stores are just closing themselves out of a demographic. Europe already doesn't offer petite from what I hear.

 
At 12:26 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger Fausta said...

I have the opposite problem.
At 5'10", most dresses are too SHORT.

Women's clothing manufacturers that do like men's manufacturers and actually market clothes by measurements will make a bundle. Even if they limit their lines to basics, I'd buy!

 
At 2:02 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger Tibore said...

Ymar,

No joke. I was just in the Philippines last February. I accompanied mom and a couple'a aunts shopping while us grown up guy children stood around holding their shopping bags (insert emasculation joke *here*). I'm 5' 9" (Good grief, I almost wrote that 9' 5"!...), two other cousins are around 5' 8"ish, and one's 6' 1". Ohmigod! We were towering over everyone in the ladies section. I swear, living in the states really skews your sense of the average human's size. Most guys were around my size, but my goodness... it was unusual to see a lady above 5' 4", and I swear, many of them were around 5' 1".

I'm kinda on the short side of average here in the states, but over there...

If you want petite clothing, Neo, take a trip to the Philippines or Hong Kong. You'll be assaulted by entire malls of sub size 6 outfits. And the exchange rate!

 
At 2:13 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger Ymarsakar said...

Going to Japan maybe be safer, but then again I like Japanese culture so what the heck.

Singapore's good too. I'm not sure what China's doing in HOng Kong though.

The reason why Asians are small in the chest and in the legs, is because of malnutrition. China, as little as 20 years ago, had foot and meat rationing. Because of subsistence farming. China has only recently joined the industrial revolution.

This applies to Cambodia, Vietnam, etc as well. In the subsistence sense, not the industrial sense.

 
At 3:03 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger neo-neocon said...

Ymarsakar: No coincidence, although I hadn't seen Bookworm's post when I wrote mine. But we were both resonding to the same NY Times article.

 
At 3:46 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger Ymarsakar said...

I saw a commercial on tv that advertised clothes for big men. It was one of my first introductions to good marketing.

 
At 4:17 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger bothenook said...

i can help! send your address, and i'll make up a care package with fudge, cookies, and other "slimming" goodies.
we'll have you out of those petites in no time!

 
At 5:08 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger David Foster said...

Here's what I don't understand. Go into a grocery store to buy (say) toothpaste or detergent, and you will be deluged with different variants on the same product. Improved inventory control methodologies have made it much easier to handle variety, and product managers at P&G et al just can't seem to restrain themselves from taking full advantage of it.

So, why does it seem to be so difficult for clothing manufacturers and retailers to handle a form of variety (sizes) which actually does matter to people?

 
At 5:28 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger Ron said...

For men and women both, the sizes of clothing are a continual joke! I simply don't understand how the product decisions for clothing are made! You almost have to get things hand made to stand any chance at all of getting good clothing....

 
At 6:13 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger Ymarsakar said...

Well, toothpaste has to be based upon some kind of objective standard of competition. But fashion? It makes up its own reality, according to designer desires.

Those razor wars were funny as heck. 2 blades, no 3 blades, now we have 4 blades,but no we are superior with 5 blades!!

With fashion, that linear progression competitive model doesn't seem to go into effect for some reason.

 
At 7:37 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger AmericanWoman said...

Not all petite women are skinny or would fit in a size 2.

Land's End still makes not only petite sizes, but you can' have the pants hemmed to any length at no extra charge.

 
At 8:55 PM, May 30, 2006, Blogger The probligo said...

I can relate to the thought. My daughter comes in at just short of 5 foot 12. Until about three years ago the selection of business and fashion clothing in her size was small (not a pune). She can share (NZ sizes) a 12 and a 14 with my wife (who is 5 foot 8) except that what is demure on my wife becomes a raging mini on my daughter...

 
At 10:02 AM, May 31, 2006, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is it just my imagination but are most women’s dress shoes kind of flimsy? They look like they would come apart if they got a little wet.

I have the same problem as in a previous comment – which is a long torso that prevents a regular shirt from staying tucked in. I try to buy shirts made with extra long tails, which are available, which is an example of the disparity between the options provided by male oriented marketers and those catering to women, by providing special sizes for a male niche market.

A long torso also means that suit coats and blazers off the rack never quite fit – either they look too small because the bottom hem rides too high, exposing the rear end, or if a ‘long’ size is selected to cure that problem the sleeves are usually too long and reach almost to the tips of my fingers.

 
At 12:40 PM, May 31, 2006, Blogger SteveR said...

I thought a "size 2" referred to a band-aid.

My wife and I were watching the tube the other day and channel surfed to a station showing "Dr. No"

We both were amazed when we saw a shot of Ursula Andress from the rear - she was actually zaftig! and speaking as a guy, she looked pretty good to me.

It's all Twiggy's fault! Why did everyone fall for that nonsense (not to mention the damage its done to women's self-image over the years.)

 
At 4:54 PM, May 31, 2006, Blogger Ymarsakar said...

Why were people amazed at seeing the back of Ursula?

 
At 10:43 PM, May 31, 2006, Blogger rickl said...

I have a small chest but long arms. I've been buying clothes from L.L. Bean for the last several years. They recently eliminated their "medium tall" size in shirts, which was perfect for me. Now I'll have to buy "large" which will look kind of voluminous on me.

If I bought "medium", the sleeves would end well above my wrists.

 
At 5:00 AM, June 01, 2006, Blogger Beth said...

Ugh, petite sized clothes are AWFUL! I haven't shopped a petites department in years--not so coincidentally, since I worked where the dress code was strictly observed, and Macy's had a pretty OK line or two.
Other than that, REALLY! Wouldn't it be great to get a pair of Seven (or other non-grandmotherly) jeans that didn't come with a 34" inseam? Or a skirt with a hemline that doesn't need reconstructive surgery?

And I've gotta say, the size 0-2 thing is a joke. IF you can find something in 0 or 2, it's usually something meant for teenagers.

How sad that smaller people have to look all the way across the planet (Asia? slightly inconvenient!) for properly-fitting clothes. I hate dealing with alterations. Hate it!

 
At 5:41 AM, June 01, 2006, Blogger Alexandra said...

Well I definitely have the opposite problem @ 5'11"!

But I have to say that somehow we are catered for better in the high fashion market, as the designers are rather more used to tall then petite.

In the world that I move around in, being petite and a size 2 is an absolute winner, and being tall simply means every inch counts.

 
At 1:18 PM, June 01, 2006, Blogger miriam sawyer said...

Coldwater Creek is a wonderful mail order company that carries petite sizes.

I have to order petite pants because my legs are short, and I refuse to pay $60 for a pair of pants plus $10 for shortening them.

Don't tell me to shorten my own pants, because I always end up with one leg shorter than the other.

 
At 2:55 PM, June 01, 2006, Blogger Kelli said...

I feel for you. I am 5'5" with a healthy, old fashioned Swedish physique (generous bodice, belly and backside) which puts me in a modern 14/16. When I shop in plus sizes, the clothes always end up waaaay too long. Apparently these clothing makers think the "plus" also means "plus height". No true.

Additionaly, many clothes makers think that just making clothes bigger, without changing anything else about the pattern, is all they need to do. Thus, you end up with a larger version of "regular" clothing that does not fit or flatter. For instance, the evil of low-rise jeans. A woman whose hips and butt need a size 14 or 16 often is uncomfortable having her generous hips hugged in such a way. I've had to go up sizes just to find something I could wear without getting arrested!

 
At 6:39 PM, June 01, 2006, Blogger visioneerwindows said...

It would seem this is an opportunity, a golden one, for an entrepeneur to openb a new business, with new dseigners, with the input from y'all, and have it done by way of the net, avoiding the stores.... just send in the measurements, the style, colors and voila, your outfits....

 
At 7:00 PM, June 02, 2006, Blogger Amy said...

Ah, what a joy. I actually started blogging (which, I vowed I would never do) because I got so frustrated ranting to my poor friends about this. (see my posts: http://somesmallsense.blogspot.com)

I definitely feel that a lot of this is size discrimination. There's no purely economic reason that niche markets are so poorly developed in this country for petites and plus sizes.

Yes, they indeed have size 00P clothing because I have to buy and alter them to get professional looking clothing. Who's gonna take you seriously if you look like you're 14 and wearing your mom's stuff? I lack the height (I'm 4'10") and chest to pull them off otherwise.

I'm healthy but definitely thin, and I'm not apologetic about it. It's hard for me because I'm small (read: scrawny) but all women that are not within a very small range of "average" have trouble finding stuff. And if you're petite (or sub-petite) it's impossible to buy off the rack.

I used to wear a size 2 regular at Banana Republic not quite 10 years ago, and now I have to take in a 00P. Clothing sizes are the only thing where the perception of being lower than average is actually great.

David, the reason toothpaste is easier is because it has a much longer shelf life than clothes. And it's not like you won't get a mint gel if the mint paste wasn't available. Both toothpastes work and do the job. For clothing for hard to shop sizes, it's not a preference thing - it's completely a practical thing.

As for the comment - "Where the heck did anybody get the idea that "more 0's, 1's & 2's" would solve the petite clothing shortage? What planet does that woman live on?"
Well, I live on the same one as you. I can't help my height, and I can't help my weight. I get to enjoy a lot more children's departments than you and find that out that I'm about the same size as a 10 year old girl. But, you're right, the petite clothing section sucks, but part of the problem is that we're all different heights and shapes.

For anyone that's petite and looking for non-frump, try Banana Republic, JCrew, and Ann Taylor.

 
At 2:16 PM, June 03, 2006, Blogger manders said...

Amy, I can relate! However, I am 4'11" and actually have a womanly figure with curves in places they should be. Sometimes the narrow sized juniors department clothes do not accomodate my frame and it's probably a good thing because I really don't want to look like I am trying to hard to fit in with my teenaged daughters. (Although I can really dig the low waist trend which means I can find jeans that fit my short waisted torso!) The petite departments and stores often offer more "career" looking clothes, which does not fit my lifestyle. (Like I am going to wear a light pink cashmere sweater with sequins on it to my construction office)
I agree neo-neocon, ordering additional smaller sizes into the ladies department isn't going to help me any. If the crotch hem falls 3 inches below my, well, crotch, then no matter how talented the seamstress hems the inseams, I am not going to get the pants to fit me comforatbly.
Kudos for this article!

 
At 5:36 PM, October 15, 2007, Blogger ~ Liv ~ said...

awesome post. I am a a 27 year old mother of 3 - I'm just shy of 5ft and am very athletic. I work hard for my physique - I look like a healthy & fit woman. I've had a lot of success at Anne Taylor Loft. good luck ladies...

 
At 4:04 PM, November 11, 2007, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I will say that I too am 5'4 and I weigh about 130lbs and am typically in a size 5-6. I'm not thin but I'm not large either but finding clothes seems to be a complete and utter pain. The petite dept. (what's left of them) has horrible clothes and the juniors dept. makes me look slutty. I want something classy and MY SIZE! I have to shop around a variety of places to make up one outfit because pants fit in one place, shirts fit in another and shoes (well that's a whole new pain on its own)

I hate the whole fashion industry for making the models amazons with no meat on their bones. It's destroying fashion for all of us petite women.

 
At 2:38 PM, September 20, 2008, Blogger Unknown said...

I'm 5'2" and not skinny, weight between 152 - 162. Been working on that for a few years! I have high powered job and don't want to look dowdy or matronly in my clothes. What are my options. Petite jackets too short, expose tummy or look like my Grandmother. How hard can it be to take fashion and scale it for us that are "normal?" We'd all like to be the size of Michelle Pheifer, or Sally Fields but we don't have 2 hours a day with a trainer to sculpt that body. We are working 80 hours a week to complete with the puppies we are training to take our place one day. Come on give us a break. We will buy your clothes if you only give us something we look, and feel confident in. Jackets too short, expose tummy bulge (too many kids), need boot cut pants long enough to cover the 2 - 1/2" heels (out backs are damaged from carrying around those kids). We want to look classy, elegant and not such a limited color pallet. I do like black, chocolate and navy as classics but give me something to work with it. I travel all the time and I need to look polished but not "old."
Someone set up and help the baby boomer. Don't forget we really are the engine that drives the train and will be around for many years to come.

 

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